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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.08 20:31:00 -
[1]
Onyx vs catcher - read up
Onyx vs Broadsword:
1. fairly similiar tank (onyx has EM hole, broad has Kin hole). Pretty much means onyx will have problem with gank-geddon while broad will struggle against gank-mega
2. damage: broad has higher but at tad closer range (HAM Onyx is pretty ok idea because HAMs can fly up to 30km).
3. speed: broad >> onyx (1,8 to 1,4km/s or so with t2 MWD)
4. cap: broad has much better cap stability... with passive MWD setup it usually needs 1 less PDU to keep scram + hardeners running
But even tho onyx is tad worse than broadsword it STILL is far superior to Devoter and Phobos (only problem is lack of web, but MWD helps patch this problem a bit).
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.09 00:00:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Waxau
Tbh, i disagree...
Similar tank, and yeah - Same type of holes. However, my EM resist is only 3% lower than my explosive. So a gank geddon will do just as much as a gank mega near enough.
As for damage...yes broad can do more dps. Its the same as comparing a Caracal to a Rupture. However, the difference is that a caracal can hit at 100km. So can the Onyx (with heavies).
If onyx is attacking at 100km its wasting its purpose anyways. Caracal would be better.
Quote:
As for speed...Yes i agree - However every time ive used an Onyx, i dont fit an mwd. Majority of times, an mwd isnt needed. And when it is, thats when you have to fall back on ceptors, and normal dictors.
Speed = life, that is fact. Speed > tank in most ocassions too. Unless you plan to sit on gate and suicide when enemy gang comes in (coz you wont deaggro in time, nor move away from their range) then you might as well not use MWD. But i think normal dictors are cheaper for this. In all other uses MWD is essential - not only enables you to close to target before deploying bubble (if you tackle multiple targets in fleet) but also with focused mode enables you to keep with target or speed tank drones.
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As for sustainability...I fit PDU for tank, not for cap stability. So that arguement isnt really overly strong. A PDU is a good thing to fit for a tank.
If you fit purely for tank there are SPRs. But onyx (and broad) with full low of SPRs will have serious cap issues.
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But imo....Onyx + Broadsword > Phobos + Devoter for fleet warfare. for small gang warfare, id prefer the others (for the armor tanking arguement)
Armor tank is never argument for me. Only reason armor tankers "can" be better is due to web mount they have. Except for this one slot they are similiar (mwd, web, injector for devoter, where broad needs only mwd, no cap use for passive tank, speed advantage helps when you lack in web).
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.09 07:46:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Atsuko Ratu
I tank multiple dooms days every day in my HIC.
No, really!
MWD are fail. You arn't fast enough to get away from any tackler, and you can't speed tank with such a low speed. Not to mention, if you are speed tanking a "mom in lowsec", chances are you're already webbed.
If you are tanking mom in lowsec in your Hictor and you are webbed you should be already dead. There is no way in hell HIC tank can hold mom damage (its around 1000dps tanked on HIC vs 1800+ dps incoming).
Waxau - i wonder how much of "i tanked Shrike solo" was due to lag and noone being able to target/kill you. Because sitting close to multiple carriers usually means death to HIC.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.01.09 08:31:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Akita T
Now, I do have to wonder about something though (yes, I am a HIC utter newbie, can't fly one yet, two weeks to go still), if you have a focusing script, can you be remote assisted (shield transfer) ?
Nope. So its like you said: either break scrambling for 1 rep cycle or use 2 HICs: one being repped other scramming.
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.01.09 14:52:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Waxau
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
If you are tanking mom in lowsec in your Hictor and you are webbed you should be already dead. There is no way in hell HIC tank can hold mom damage (its around 1000dps tanked on HIC vs 1800+ dps incoming).
Waxau - i wonder how much of "i tanked Shrike solo" was due to lag and noone being able to target/kill you. Because sitting close to multiple carriers usually means death to HIC.
Firstly, a mom is easy to tank. My vulture on SiSi tanked a mom a few months ago for close on 20 minutes. Onyx has near enough an identical tank.
Find better mom pilot... Seriously i like reading ghost stories but thing is: MOM deals abt 2x damage you can tank. Thats means it takes abt 2-3 minutes tops to kill you. Also "i can tank 3 bs/command ships in hvy dictor" is also bullcrap, which i unfortunately hear way too often.
And if you think you can - prove me wrong. On TQ. Can switch aggro, ill bring 3 BS. If you can tank em have fun - ill even let you blow those 3 BS to pieces. Seriously im just tired of "sisi" or "eft" stories...
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Deva Blackfire
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.01.09 18:01:00 -
[6]
Seems you even have problem with common abbreviatoins used.
Perma tank = cap stable tank (you can put tank on, go afk, go back - tank works) - this is PERMA tank.
Tankable = he CAN NOT kill you. Ever. Unless your cap dies.
In both cases your ship DIES but just takes some time. Its not tankable - its just good buffer. So if you want to say something say it properly so people can actually understand.
So pretty much - your ship CAN die to mothership and WILL die given time.
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